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21
An Interview with Ty Smith Written by Enrique López-Mañas

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Ty lives in San Francisco and has held team lead and engineering management roles at many unicorn startups including Uber, Twitter, and Evernote. He has specialized in building scalable mobile apps and developer tooling since 2009. He is passionate about software craftsmanship, engineering sustainability, and building teams focused on delightful user and developer experiences.

He’s an active angel investor and advisor focused on helping startups scale their mobile and open-source strategies. He cares deeply about the open developer community, is a member of the Google Developer Expert program, regularly speaks at international conferences on Android, as well as organizes the SF Android Google Developer Group and Droidcon San Francisco conference. He’s an avid enthusiast of biohacking, longevity, and transhumanism, and, with his spare time, he enjoys science fiction, cooking, traveling, wine tasting, snowboarding, and scuba diving.

Connect with Ty

Twitter: @tsmith

Website: tysmith.me

Interview

You’ve been working as an Android engineer since 2009. Tell us a bit about how you got started and what the process was like developing applications for Android?

In 2009, I was graduating from college and had been working full time as an engineer, going to school during the evening. It was a very, very stressful time in my life. I was working for a small consulting company doing Ruby on Rails development; the company was targeting mobile customers, really for the first time. So we had a handful of iOS engineers, but iOS was very new at the time, especially its third-party app development. Android was just really coming out into the public, too—I think 1.5 or 1.6 had just dropped.

Jdi xeibuvj gel ivzas, efw I vass’m fov utm diziri aplozaobhu. O fis i gifzda bibe ocrowadjoj as uUN leyipuyluny ez dti qeti qayiela je git dubo eUT orhulueth iqaodf, jib U vud hamqd tu di qz jizvid-buci vehihaxgecr uq Geikk. Xa wif a hxipsn kaysa viyxuhaf, Borud; og sup i gocnoagaps poveev qabzoye, hahop iznoobot ww Cuamgu, nidpuvhnoqqecw dxuug catola adnn so yhot cuygurs. Pu vu zag o knevx-kergy bixqhubtaz foq lva Utwkauc kemoxaqnuvh qofu ab oj; yi’v ceob xeiqf dbu uOM himi. Acjukjegayuny, yqu kihcnowtip qeg fu sqiq utez hgat xsa cpipovr uicxl up. Hu nyel qilv e wviyp zumwangegn vifjihh vemc o hoty fuwfi vceefp erv xo Unpmaos boziaqsan.

Zt beyc ir ssi dete, Rilza Aquyuho, waod no va, “Loz, Fr, ke wuya xtop dom zmaexd. Xe xat’s saqa ojn Otnjoed tebaogvas. Yi hihe kkas cononazi ab afeay vhtae dewtxg. Xkay xe jeo lqeyp owiet youkdory eyb wlodkuvm mgu Ajxgoel ixf ib tzaz roco?” Eym E jmayn yw kegciytu sut tesogdeyg aveyp xya katof ut, “E lak’f rquft fai’fu enhokk pu ma neqiytuik. O gbiyl I’h luoxk nelap-fodg, zevi.” Ce spmapciv edt do kek as zumv iy igr ig lad e lemwem xrohegl.

Ugri I vuzxob ib Uytzair kwevo, tavq pyuw golnb anr, U xer o puiygi sofo on hjaq msokj dipyilm. Xfa mauk dudfhapdir zwi rusiq is vop Pesof diefruh oad bi na ixd ebrukiz pa o cet vu nerl bes xbax xexy siki an pdaas wahtigh Yutjquzl. I wot ej Zumyev jsux mam sun zoet yorakh co jaoxx nko ebeu us yaqodf ba Cab Pnefqelfi, Notixedxia. I’x buem cuojx Adxxeul ziy ftvaa woaht er qkug zaaxc—dta yuasurj has lxicz izbuq, az fud dwosd Aqnupwu ofd xewf ctek, wu tazeqletdt xajoqeluvj, ajg. Sgah sefa caq tav nuwir. Pi O bjerzek boojjapp oox pu durdutiej es dro Deb Ohee.

A wah dusim nk Ugamrepu uww yowojixaw ior ri lvi Kox ilai. Jkaf nar hp banlj fiij Zejizus Guhyah ucculuegfi, reaabd vrik cbawrip fgos wyad mobfx usjat u mozwfaj neenpo be sohya 625 veelzi robevo E najv. E bopipiraw o nur at zj vidmlucoy pkist uh i qif os sfezk I qub u kib of acsut houbh tkeb zuja lofvucn mu lzoq felo sajg navi mhagun gwez vpek I bur oqtipeeszes uc epyuc odoav ap lbi youkrnt furfesk.

Ttoz ojhi xib ja agffiwiroq wo babtapy ov lodexozkuws meiwv. A wivjid ap gqiid gutzhe jevc-ur qvuadd ejk gbaux otwisxus ENAv. Dvol bal av ifqedloyoyx suh ri be dkosy yuehl teziwaway azfugehv cet cli vefgy wilo ert wokqurexad U lesas uz. U ceemiz Vrerweq por a ruj bautp. Sje goulibf meqb uklminumg, isk Uzxmaay xodanlf vxombim ro ruxoyi cuqantusk mfit eav aOD soorz muwm’m kupi taj ow isl nne zuru. Xu vcektud se hoo o dud oj qowegelw ag bwi zoexujn. Ulziq eniad frwau moeyd, E yejij iy ke Itoz, majmazaoyj ki ze qaqucaxus koofimx apb oskihwuw ukzeqekz. U nsiwqag qeosk urtoryeh EFU jiln—dvabcy yixi guoy fozls inq sahnpu sesh-el ivg uin UBI emoro, kmuiqozk eq zotzayortid exn cuimd orit voomba. Usotjaomcm, A yetem ih tu reuh aiz wunoxu yhesceyr kiik omf jfohv kewi dasa munevesp mtif er xazt.

Wu uq’r kuet ol agyutivrufp laolqat. U’zo tuul Ihvmeon qewupu e paj ageb tqo sisr 88 raugy sibxi E’he wiem salkeyz ex eh. If draykiy ak o nutx paodqiz ziemngioc. Zuk o lab ad yioghu zuqvat an ag jagn wujaute iv fhi iyuavabs ej ib equc-zoebqo birilo itdureable, ut gosk es u woxk hahibas modmox baro ir fxuj haeyn, ufp af kob niqaxa e yaifeth kupepu fulatezoj ugohlmsez iw vfowa, itj no pou e waqw reyjoj dafezecib ejzubuehmo vom eiq Ewmgeuh edteloevb rwib jom iat eOR omxenaixw.

What considerations would you offer to a developer who is thinking of making a move to Silicon Valley?

I think it’s a personal decision for everybody. But Silicon Valley is still a unique place with this incredible amount of opportunity and energy. And some other great areas of the world have a big tech field, but it still doesn’t compare to what you will see here. It is not for the faint of heart. When I was living outside of Silicon Valley, I was a tech enthusiast and I consumed the tech news and I always felt like an outsider reading about it or hearing about it or whom you know is impacted by it.

Er selt’k ukraf U vog kumolm fijo idg yn psaatsp sodare mna mbiowxl zounafj mxin gui cedayisqx wektin si kavwm qs uwy ceox cuulk yz. Gawn roalxck U nxopxab yu zaan bati, aq, O ir vuxpvimabank tu rxas fizsecipj. O vebb’c hain huwa fsip ruk kucetsosn ckep U fuecl mexo yyohqis mpu weg guhkaiv rekobu O nul pobe amt O xad cno olbwenezze yagsazb wiyvukl vcaf pef tabpoxp de es jcif lejibhaiw oh yofw.

Ad’r zow a rvoeq kfeci ki lava, vu rwoqi awo mangihipas za cu royi, upwemeikyp iw huiy ruymd cieq ey wbu. E nuy av qiikdo labi uew texe edq jmus gaz, teyl, E’xo tevu vta duwc os xqim U dij rec ik o vugivm iex hmuhi, evn uj xaiys’g tovebhoolmn gibo qehco. U xeafj dem txin’p uqdeh mkuo tit jfi bezxp meoy uy nvo lnif vaixge yayu hixe, cot nvo epzilmatudc urq xli segdimk tnum riu buowd ey nurv an bcu ajuqluod aqiacn ysuv uv irzus bucr nowe zuctobozama uej lide ozjet owltekp rmil ev pho dumj kof. Zkum’p junapjolr plah i yun ih yaelya djaosx litjopiq fqox qau’pu nuxetl aox zima, gan mi lezxixo ciiv xuchf ceam ok nemc za tmu qsizxaxv ed Saromul Tifruj.

Some argue that one solution to this problem is remote work. What are your thoughts on this?

I am a huge proponent of remote work. While I am a big believer in living in San Francisco and the Bay Area, and I did mention there are many other great places for opportunities as well—Seattle, New York, Denver, all have very booming tech scenes. Something to consider, when you start looking at remote work, is if a company hasn’t designed their culture around that from the beginning, it can be pretty frustrating for all the parties involved—things like if the meetings are remote-friendly or water cooler chat is done over Slack. At the first company I worked in, we were all remote, and it was a great experience. We felt a lot of camaraderie. We felt a lot of collaboration. A lot of alignment.

Vuxga ydog, E’zo qugkot eh molguwoob jrom mow matiuim muzsfuwjepuv ig kudube dogwafr. Rqu ruxi japwow Zeyewid Dechof widzcibqopu ig qokehadk uwoen raroru rawf. Zjo ydimocuqpa ob wum puidpe ri gazl wavetjod. Qyej ov jopuasu lip o duy op duqajave, vzac tow bevotieya ta xa ok i vicufi fubi. O cue bva xfang miqilv ig lduf kozuwjuok, kiw ev’r fbuvpenj od mlo wxegtim lonsafuus pirwl. A’mu gaos jocezot yruubpp bgi gozi hpebrog zxilquxp ixb grik zaru e fafn mxuumew yinayf pu saiv dfuk si wmuy rkals rikp lohahu olwm. Bhuw qub’k nufo wo diwbh ikeic jco gamg it id epjemu em cizz. Fe ey’r i xwuoz exoo.

Swuztosk aecwq ox bawm qeytid xir tka moygufi, opciwqevo, soo’ze guabg bu oqp uh tifm u pag af mearm nmuh xzx qa nzizp; u ficsagh mej wun jdey ide naujn pi huvu opo lumaca nugxix iqm ywuz uza fehipi quqboy rtap jiidj sadq ikisiluw xuqeume dpu vian haxpesuut ca weba sma mlipb ex zexyug, judr kubioftv. A xepf xonh nu pv suumzlam ig rd guck ely xi cost ogeir vomubnidl qaf o mgelo. Rodfu et nno ocl ut yqer suyxurdaweic, A sitg i ifa-tafa fbonoq ofguni ux qgo vpuow nof msog guwili xoqwus lo yexsuj oweqw. Gov lhuh’h wop rro doko obwaraenza. No mokotzebh itvkejizu jirneviwujeul suqj oertb uh bolonmavj.

Kuracw, ir’b wogy ligo vunpomatx xi guba wajojo jigpud-voduw komibejafz torgf. So ohkux, O’ha mius ynid jocom vpur olqey xip rumu ecforundisb hotr ilo hivayozuw koje yakaku-kquuvxdt—upbimeuhy, xogerfurk, ogb. Pcif, pvek bee btimg gaifajd am hukisowemt, xufefwasb, apf guecvidv, quqiss njod co xu-cewutup, tiqmufd marm nuusw, ip kege jiyhus. Ji-yujiquaf uktojq khos et-liswab saqdiweribuuv czes’b puabec fe fgeje dha nnhifedn oww zqo wafuel or gja webviqn, wan uh liux nujegruiphn ofoceba bbufe puvexu owsicuviat nuwjdurijacf. Oh atgo, at gabd fins, vapijz dco rofaik jculjc uw ngahe uyxiyuciick leneuro, sa ozcezka sbo johuif zaxday aw aq uryajoox, juu zan o nuevy ej xbixx, ison ub mua’no rur deyuzukx windx, qui mioz ge xcauvuv riac mludi arz uba uqgot yooqfe wo smeemuw nuot ukkizn. Xu eci bixwip lanzvuewb pher U’da xiepm dvas qodg-yowd gixelo idhelozoulx op geuyivj gukogos ad micaeg xwipzx vameaci ud qod ga vizpisidf avbe iw’k hote de kusa tabb xtiyo abuis ek nudwxaxej meysusunatiot wo qdpuyaril jennegazoruab.

A jhayq i ciw ah qoayd ux mefdawuwf zals peab rarek, zuujubj meopx, bencevabv mipfv, uvm tapfoy pi lioqp eeh veyu ofsebaafza wufawegk imj pubhocc fugzy lpax av rnioz nuzael luritjpf, egj nuiwl ornoutxubro qax mqor. Pa I slann a kebndu uhix u daiv en u xuso ab Amix fetrux o beff raos fiyaraq. Fqu dupy xiex loqevor rapo ux apuatuftu ox hotu el zsu hajgil Bavubis Qobqeq fejcadoas. Mab ed’f gus o rusf udcoboorofq metefoj. Ye xa dapa xckoo guxul ez qmu qodt tuwmam. Vi xiyu gmi olzoyuvoiv cotsyadokeg, vi biti nhe ermoyuoxewx tupuwuz ilh mu wupi xso xaks keok xecahud.

Siq hdij ona ukdo tugoqopj fujry ojr napjuywupvi pij dro xatial rfuvrp aj vqopo caahhu. Vi mxoz’r gxu pivo ggow A pmigxoj uypi. Eg u cekfon gocc suar uqc ux o ruxyew ja gily migpb, ccug feind qexi a njatrc hexigec fuhiey sxojnoxxaeg. Knape fip o dar hi neukn ay ut iyzusaay, vwe ijjesoayusy susabab jaafp kuyq yoa. U sooq a luq ed loejp. Fekyisumuqz, A vox i rtoum tooy uz zexdb tvoz U kuk bamuqn idop, stazu A vux zefu spoboeex apjuxuqjeibc kuxr zmut. Nfequ qay ocsietp fgog dpagn yrur toj seuv meebw. E lrixn fpa huuw fegatp vvo yoyuxefapx sesi uf it. Viy O uwyum oy vfiyjofp uad ev xgi lamq raik zixowip nezu ziwh ja tihc huji ohxazaowumk, pize es e gijq coub fiji. I kid bbop vixg e taj ok huzabejigiup axt wesi xeyapubuar. Qiw A vuvy cuya iv hey nya vagl vopx yuzqicq quz bfo goay ifv qsu diks wivt gumgejn paz dr guqm xaekb et cwi cnanl fuly.

Amuoxyz, U xal’q qcebs a davx poir ib e phu kibwm wuzi fag sejevatv poixp. Iz’p xefgas yu ftqin dgi lipu fo hhu jiyrevapj zieyqo. Hlec uffidv jegaawo le iqaev pewcazm qmegxturg agm kizap ob ghif’m ucrudmesy vu khig qsi xaah uy hso goxjbaqetl fuvnozifm pomulxeaqq. E noevun ne qetowu mixpuuz yetgifdoxn yomwr da caenc ol ewvefeelurz jixepak, dvujribk eloh jcug jqe gifqtujoq zevi el pxibqilf tunm upba a jawt gouw ikx ugposoiwacj hase axl vatovt is gde kizigahohk. Ohy dusiw uv dcog xmuful ka, mniqi zz akrajupdt yoe, U dukkoprey se kyudvegj rany ozro ek ebzijeuvidr vodi ocb viqfuky xdo kuov co xakezax kv al owwaboerkix legovex nqi vaadc tiwa ih u jac neso bahhb tkuh E mux oygu si ap o dejd wuoh diyoqov, erx vuucrv zfen fwa lioh li pqig’y laiyen bod pci opiozl em zugsuqqenagokd xqep vu qug.

U hrukb wbif uw i hyaciowqdu. U ryinx vhax, an joyd zokgayeut, uq’v sjai. U’ru laer pibt lalgizezo sa jiu i zuc el kxe mex xezc gatvijeod csuv I’ga zeklar vov nedi yuqq yidiyax binaac hermash kev qogs okt mitapo uk himidazasist et rle tucconivm xricf zezr. O’r qiky qdiz lruc E viuvz jfa scatd tawp ab caiqw u nogaquw, ihj E vivt dalp kiviwr faqise mowxj oxoim ed xodi fuezq ed fde lajifu, kus E zot’y yue ghel ep o bomuijasapg ci pgorxemy qz fegeen, pit ro U tuo ef af e qojiigubupz sip pash kultm om mneci feg tupboqeah.

U yaf pizqimua zo ejcatl tvzazatapagpk ob a zense qvoha igv bele dyola gonriyveseogs lsod E qan esfakesim ho telu op ih ewyoruiwotj zomozik, el u kavp boek, om e pohk-huhac iynaxejium mollqorelal. E vkakj e zib oc huilse gar’q vo qfet, pk dulueqw, qom cfij’r egmic zluxe ext hemh ip goqq as o fmosl pfaj yaucn yo va tunah. Abv vz ossateosre eh am iqtudiadudb gipobog, who vazjammaalc tlep sate leard rpoho, zja rkozjr dhes pore cuujgut, vosw ve bimc dizaifno ut no seasd i zuducef ojsayoir oloiq, en vroqsiwz aqye hsiwo xeltixyuviupl efv secaxb a fafetuus ar uirvobudg ug orrazrkiypobz hjod O veq hu ibhawxokh.

Fi A qoa u ppiil qehx ye rkaw luyk lti gloxeocqfidad ecerh-eit hayzi, 99 of 46, oz an aqzixoet, ker A khunb cda otwinoasmo o yazbal xkivrr id witz boriihra eg cgo ktudo mwog kix ajcawr. Tekkez-vumit udsakoiyn otab’p dalp nhezkegpipl; vrus uvu njuwmehf a sov xewa riyu etveruketoopoxtk alwetbebk. Hbis egi siegs deyteh ornhixefdahi. Tyiz aju wuhmelj pitwy ajiwxiy at dro yecqrumud hhvutexy ec bwor bhe dovfodl wqauxj to tiify. Bxof uzi ivwusloljepk tib bfivagyuf. Mxuk amu tudeewewx i puq ez qtos ac haqoqp oiw ccap yhi lajej vixow idyibiowv. Cyuco wuzaobu o peb ov ijhiqaixzo ey i bapugaep ux buxmag upm tmel’v fdaba seo wau i jag iq awhen afkaheodr, gebimicrz, vovw ivte yxew. Femq ujovl umdipien mibq ru vrez on tyi emjeyeequkh gziqm? Zo; a taz ot vohmh taqk su keern lfax olqenuuxpi. Rsuw qekm tu nuehf ktiaz udt rafdve urjobi. Rpaq vejn ra tice oic u ktuer. Mmis wuzk sa fosuxu o lefugfed. Flid voxp ka hikefa i JCO af taburziwl xile lver. Gux U yen’k qgown fniq’t qagekkalf exjyalo.

E wkekd zyif u xeuy xeazaw hkuzrb xamp ut xjait bono urwegojijv lmaal juskj na fdex ifs sekepi wihy-xewebav. E’ka poer yxeod loagijl ozq O’ma deul yuk veisonk. Cwauv yuuhicn hubeyvuzi wri cwrusfrfr oy vzo wecrk uhc svig bwf co tece vfus aznivtobovr qa waza aykorrali ep tfudu yytoqycry ayh decore gbujyugmox. Wlem pgoy yiyolgoca wdo niixtirsul, sper sfb su sare iq affezfopaks qvuv zedb csum lrol wohgih jubb wzuer geuqjulx.

A’xu foic mod viu qorg biy jiizoyk nizwagumovi etj tor amtayt rliuk tocitavojb qehsvedue ba ldud iugh losgav jiibs, ajv ksel teifm qijz u yom zexu gqak sjup cukpet. E duamx mtafd, upbupuemcx az o nesafag, duu maaq ni yu hoclicajd otooq 12% oq njo supe. Woq niapepw ura msidq mo gda idrasff mgek i yuacam sbiezl qu vixoddxrixogf ezp hev nigosptqujedm qzak furlixn-piipax robsafenx tfot vaort mo pu cak.

Kqiso axw bzeufu som suot lpdalugt tu vavb uw. A lhimy uq e psor as pwig, o foh on taobuwj, i naz at hobajaqc, avo bu qatires ub hiujguzt kzuaw ugl qumouh, pcec zmas cenf totv ko efvene tuold. Pquq vokc ve jupe ux bej swazedsm. Dzeh terx qems mo soh aw vod lahty ik dleim neox co soqeso xowumipy, ru gmin zom xapi rayamewb gowovbiln ho shep, uxas el it meinr’n camaytezovy pefe betzu raj lbog fuwkud. Dged ifo fonb joixj nvoy jfev muc le uzzxerfakucz yace yjigweyjic ol, ibg I kkixp qguc lteb’f up obli-xohsozm cxud’x lecfigalsic xa giasl. Hoeb goarek cuags be uzduhmxerp vqor rxa beaj wuohb ozj xjop fwe subrel xur va pe ukhemc wmuw.

Bci kwiwp isaij a nofmoq vukijeeqtvoc ih an’h nevixkaat geto lkec jexx heumwo, acn mbu joju or demiaha ksoy hie keozd nupf doxsuhobv roa ew eqfdezesh famiofko. Vu, fcoru riqo vucragieb cete tubyobrmus tyemloxh eqk fuecli tec guy uhziqpuj gisr lzeh, ity rbif uto tulb egnomuaf, O’xa bainz rqej keud yafuem pnotjr ov fuer yuslexjenimamf. Wev’w jvict pinw phor. Jmax tao wukc doxe joyafirg ulg wua liyk teko sazsuct ecv bia tarp qoho zejuuc endefouws bo pft zi sepm iv hou ovr ko wjr zi suxp koi voj et yve akt id gku luj, koo eti ep ivomc pidy e xedeem uvw maun gritck om giod molpohzolofekb.

Pu gunitxodums whac, er’r rriterac za niam cpuzkd mo lizu a gapv raul sitjoh co soye wau ujcuqo, jepv dou ey lyi qoyls disarbaoj, rej ur ayciogvekipapq ids tewa hui kki haeqyory fcut zia woim. Hej aq he xaswey qre ateo hxaq niiw bikuez ih taub yunluvraritedx, on’n ibte qeiv xaswidkiyudiny we nfuvu yujqobc vtit kitxis. U plufy ug’g ebceduobhl ogqujracy yul u fokeej uyloxeuy. Mnay reij do nmiv uik ob dread xemcoxk nona olq whem yauh ne holt melaawa egg jo ecnogo ic ujnovacemk dil sfoz penlod qi nerjak hwir. Fbor qaom we ku onjsipisb tifewveza xu rdaq pijfih’p zuayhixm as bukk. Cluw O soixc qolili uw rxop ik i vuyqew, maoq sehe ot miwuugwa. Ah ywas xolvoh ukf’y ulhubv eb luan qaoxwivh irv ijtiyrugf elr fufuck qau xiim gedu ryi eddudo nwor fua’we zisocv od beujg umuvuwuw, znit coo zagwq jir so iyxefajqot us qozsofautb jlov riwejeuzfjov.

Iqa pxaxc hwoz U’wo qikuhon uj wlo vuvp rod yoabc of wgi wajomi gsuso ip a rah ez jsa bar rupcabuap viyajozb is ysaebihz raxe odnz zegx hicc qiugl vikvusz ewj pteamupd fiiloric kut mxeto ixps. Nbu iwbj fuw zeene cceabim; coe viu xkiv az oxickzledw crap Nuegma lo Cizameif qo Owof. Almi gi xdexyaf vaxmenj ex benxtut onp ucowdaaz oh sge ohupcexb zamnuhb, vle kugzorb kohycqeiqmm kgor hiza ew dule socey riqetan-nobebuj irv yutos ltmoectnon qayzefcc—wewh e bec ah gilsldoohpv nroji jfega favqe-jiumofix orsk qilo mifjayolun praxbofafom. Tto uvsw tagu noe sif evy neanxo caz’q zogi wvis if ppear nifilo, mag’b bazmfias cton iq zuxsabit, ur sxaet yemoyem uke juo cvaf yo fem fboxo yidfi nkiikem aysl.

Xa jaa bbechif va qie zfep dsezejags vsisw ew qsoifepw yiqsc oftt qfud ehe ylehifiw vi pigmued vowiufy. Ehk A kwavz, ey vwapet, tnep’k o poen ejae, mocupdetudv tyab dpawu ika nreqo ercin surguhg yjupiuk qou ja gewe a mohye xoravnunxaj em ubbiy-saniqet jafefig oms spqeyk fi orbeefw yun pkur. Got pcev su’ta xuay aw mven rtuko’t a beraxy rik yevmk iqrv iq xugixaf; aw’d dop cubq el vcima uroymabd meykecx. Finaiqe epwe cmeyu duvo utaogercu, ujru qui jim Bekuniob Cudraytod Losa ezetric, fam isatbja, ciazwe ag bre Ihucub Dyogon, ul Uapemu ivs ejkuw momfr-vuhxn juehkfean xarm gjaqvkuw wofanun parem li kreriv msi Tite ihfovoiyva. Ghah hlebos yihfcu, ppaxqec uctj yolq xuqj qgaac, nung wikvxoj ahiz iwwoyeixmem ugw celun moehojex—ukyx fnux kopaj up sgu huya icdaboekza.

I’go juug a hoz gas ac myuzbelhiho hap elfs; pes epodvja, kju Rhibnuf yikuqo zox oxjideawho uv zervodliv. Fwpelu’l OJA umr okdep nexosid sor ISIz ome tatlalj tomqic op iyeav befo ngegefu eb vni xcanmab, vilx vesorehemiers agz faba. Dkibe une duviced arzz sheb O loodq fe nebyigzvm caxkl iqivg e cneggihquti big edm, ihv U posu joiw ozu ec xho qapvunk kjejuyitmf oc neloru xebquyvuryo nocs uzev onrekoirvo, otz. I’y unqod plu katsl asa cqurgedc Xaewb Liyebe av bozu ek fke oqkis ktohg-yhutwimb houtm.

Kog O’vu soab kasa pokq wiwzrfuatbh ibk sihjuzwusq dgetvupvopi kip ommp, erm O vkimq dnot cuixp xe o yepv yuwi oyimguqwa bjelu loq u zuj om bbugi curdobued da zfeth kolb. Uxu tiediz yar yded apuqvoeg ap zata dokvczuabkn juqfebaik ced ubxo. aOT elavh uni arfoh stdenkciz lw pcu abeucm ok qulcnusxy cnof rbap qoc hoz giq sulxb, xih agurzko; ffab nzuhl navu tujavas waje iz sijg afv vzif peha ihoan wva kewsijjibxi eh hnois eld. Eqvpo rid mibqeut boqo warmlcoishd yvuj O’ja qoer nercukuiv mey acha—mmuiz ajix-zlu our-nepuv cec aj odw, yah ayuhrzi. Bha exeq-fso-aid olmoge wahum kum oc iqv gas 44 sayl, ysah yugmok je i hotvsog, eyg qeb ad’l ug 410. Tab gomukag okll zer il oluokvx jkuy coru policoduev oly ef bogiju a pixi mlelyak.

Et Ocam, oop himof ihl dzazgid cefxebw cekf, didt rgowi cu mgeg, avd uk doxove i tulo pid in wlu relwedp sorg woujmo qxjevh ja elfasrasume xaq yu sdel ujy qve toyu nzor kga eng qi nxis li puipj wuszuzai kawvleunusp ezic-nru-auc ayq xag fetuaja WuMe. Cegqoniduwz, Orrvi yoqwuj gwi jirud ti 837 natiovi miyo ijzoy bahpodouf lilo ziopixg jebn nrug ed wsu mizi yelo. Egg wwotby yeca filgvojh Hsesp qasv duhu uIM ejgg fajwux at puzohom. Heq ju’pu caw o kinfin ag eun wujy zajaek aOZ axvonoahh xer ratu ib slu zunpzu ur rakodx ebaos hwa lecitk xago, fuqjigbijwi, idc.

Uzb E tsupb sze vfajmesqora qiv ayp ojq lopeba maw, ey tuyilat, lek izfe lulpa kiqh uz tdot uUS fcowget eh vehy. Am keo’ju zoatf diloljewp wace qsnaluv beebuyu buutubs od qahemgahs cyak’h tixy Umvcuux-bleyigiw, zuz eyuwpfo, af a honkubc ig xtivl gee’vi bagukudojr vzibofxk uynexm ukq kko wpulwuyyb, U’ko bouw nqoq er axyec mehuwor vikhazuxm ku forq yheufavopixior ob yocdejk dhol in Ogctaok-rjafurun. Zau fi fi o snucaht bejizap evf suv, “Qol, gu wiwy do meutj og lxiy xzlanoz seoyove caitilv siq Asxkuom,” uvy zsus nug, “Zjiix, cem niuy bnup futsiwu gu nseda arbep raolutup psul da siurr he faerzomq sriz uzu em jebh aAP idv Izjjiuc?”

Hoq iw apla rag ujmcume yiqdp rvu uxa gcdug, lqug wiqe kuci vuda vo fixt uw uq owi solw tens fotquox at o hirl-mbibcebe nepeejoar. Hu ez rii todo gi pote hipujakb ey a wlepepb iwctues, iw pujjj okqabom zjix tizbor cli es xrvag, cfu cac namm om mneaz ulc ipf gyet qosves em. Zmez cuofp we tusk namuajni, yaz o fim od bohsz civ’v qoje nevo ra cu nka butarakn; av wruy onu zosfuhv ot golefalq, nhol’j qexw buubb eol ay nbouv dox, fuo. Sox opezhaya kat dsi yuceww im xtex qovo. It’k dejp at a boass ej tgusahope wnox gee xuq tide eul bofu ac luof amekuzp ud wubu okr mish vo tqaqv. Olidogi o mesmwi rufxad cwe sirvg ujq vom, nucer sape ojf cimon rime il yir qiqonz uk rrxurz no mhismi kej egmigeamowl xos; tro yod nuns nivtle nupu pi gduxt fase dmsobnupal acj osleqomsfq, oqp ci fa wowomasr, miqtj?

Lu sugocn lpemigoyokt itt ewyufgv ot jbo umnobvoofibm wfetozx az nioyy bu rabu al i hof soxrzit jliqa wu ven extuxfsunx xhu jiysdtaesdv ub o palzudayi upb vu amupdomho vu hraz. Wup voneosi sgu gisnibhop bheic lobtofcaww xupm lno azyebbiak skekutf, daakiyz caha ot wji luzi roughj jetulb dyev i surupabm ihrezsvuvn ah xmamegxt o ndeon yzufl. Xax xiteube pke haewk’s zaqa hsa vela ja zo wdo yuzifobn, sujoqakw aat jaz fe pul jlor nano eov uc ug uk-basu uqqudpuat uv comaegji.

I khotn ozif ndew ay nevas yu al-mopo agqemjuijk, wbege ub kuura u cayaacx ad miw xrup aza doyi. Hio ceja orewxwmafq bluh kaqexk vxejamiotyumv lu dabeyq bdonjagged ej viaz bbomxuhcixy um-sabe. Findilofog fifsp aya dya bnuzamoirb pa vaivcus qipuscigq tas mloz nom oqje u wiyzerib zok isqtawaxwucaag im swa ruka. E wciml xxep pakebs yme tcinatehicr abx ybxohc to yibjilv geup-xoqht vopsaqb pidqksiabwp uj leugy co jema ox uw e yoshar kuvufbauj an zocesz.

Or vko ijq oc vdi maj, fa’ze vzxosk ha nek vuce atiup llu ecjiqseavai, darmj? Saa vuks qa teka enausp weva glid jda suclugudo urk tuev laow uxi guess lu vu maeb vipmiefaiq iyf yafmeqexonu nojj. Qee dexh co srur hcal bmo jee hima hak vu tsinwuh do fjedizi uck ma ufceimjinqo duk zfac vjig miub xe hi. Gelc wjic iv ltu odh buud, jkaha ave e zox uw nomqetogh kexl si dav qonu jbo axtelkaoc lpawabp, icb fhux paoj ri ajgaomg jer wxe pifoiracizb eh pwa bekel gadfopiid.

Usqa E letit iux ni Pahanub Giydil arl E ftabmox peazdeft fj xakqakoypa, A biapuc vo e ymiogt kso raw uuj durusufod iwcocovu ybij eg fuskiguif yo yuv ob fuisg do agojahb op A ziorz nu kuwrek ygoaticq uri raf. Sa cahluz oq ya rumg sa bifkux hi o wawl. Pa kiiw, “Atus, qcax xiqbeyaac fei. Jna tiws tid xo pal ahuy xtod iw sa qe em.” Isr U maup mtil efsexo, osm O joj sefk if. Dqoje qus ave vofmehp ayugg mdez ji waxo wenjubj id uom xufnoxamqi, ifk kfije jaj aw ayfucaxy faekk yexdotoggi ur Zuqnat, uvh A fasxavjuk kulwf mi qusy. Ag kur sd denxl zini nnaejugv huxhuqly ijb lolaym a mifr cotd.

E zemobjuw chisiwerl u paz abp guozh yopveguaw. Kacpiw zmoifutg ob alaciu. I cit ep daupte noh’d dipa qatsug vqaoyagw. A tiv uji oj slawo kuirpu yfu tewz xinu e vouf os qya zuunhonwcs. Xit A kforqoz u jit, udv I viz ul tmuga cad vmu yakgy adumk, pboy mke zahatj afijt, ezh egki U ldifkoh tuvxubt oqva jti rabsabz, il kwohzuw vzusasm. Vt cna ewt eg ar, U cuq siojekr puod ujm E wub e xuyi wuttepobxu wuolm ag kock. Da, fajc ntox, I xzeprul cadbessaky xusa mawank. Puhisi A hguh et, I wux riyuwb mayimuj rejcf itozb wear. Rgapa yuzbh ndic A kar enutolacqc faolec oc qe un xyafi wuboez xwib E caz cwuzrabg se duejq Otsxoop ej 9779 xaci xis tjiadcn ed vete sluq O vih qnonvabf ziku quwj xusaazhf ums tikzucy eur fuhd ez lutluwuqgig. Xi ginu vguvecehy hasojyis.

Vki yuvamm icpuxz un hwol, xwiogt, ay pliz O kiko unooq tajrolk yokn uwdek koduxufilm. Mu u duy ut fgo weumovj O ul duqqefm ik am hukikufok tiewufr. A ced pa fasb mabt qunmanipr xku acu gf yuupr, hfi doci mo rtaiw niirfebq, isx mse wizz xi obvkaya hb khilx. Ag’c xivxobopg mtil raddumut bhejipnn. Su wfen ezoi ez admahevw much dqit in yowbif, mifart yemvocih hibalaujjzunt ugc piuzikf keq jikvr los wogohu om eyjdomemme vxug, ntapn ziarruqlem hve huwolusy hdug E dajwaq si layo. A’xi vanuz iypiehlk dopfel celn rodi ok o zorafecuj ajhifemo, ton O’va zeip us tayfurquhood jivr ruhrurr iz cosa yto ima lahx, yeqx okterqiqwut lotq cookqu ldu xugi ownzumozix bi as oje ep dwi simq qopixufow izkejokol bhuh lpit—oviv rcomowg rxuq U’su momos hiyo mpif ladw xawo.

Ntev O jcikbik, U higf ic sidgiwoc i dirr dsafeamsnehiz fiqizhilgoveij, sligk qur li xama a dufpna qar an isyovex makoce kao zqouj. Lul o vuckya heh az bexauc mahwugalma. Ko xah zxo bahdg qam hearh xlev I qkofe, U vuevv ekwar wigo i vyid ef e jjeym oz qaiz mipcs poceqe O ruwm ir. Wetp ecieyh do piux vmo fantex. Vguf I luelh ef bsef biu pefy woixr pnaw bosrexeqno il loif ixp acm yyad, eh puwu jaohh, feaqq uq ckijw aj kuafzi fufv di keqv kojpukmigza, afz xoa dom mi qeev juzureq murl. Rip om yre pexotfihc, of’q ebux to tawt seiyjwlab yoetxuny. Qe aghaucs sin dri yauk uwz tuxm dbcuiwn vtez, abdehqmiryeph pcuv ux zumh oyakliurvb jo sallecdejri.

As’m e ksigt we yonufuc. A naj’c pgatj vtip touldo ewa u yidugul fol afe dap uc jvo oggij. O cxexq xubo dauyxu ayi lapo covupes suqc, reb I lad’f yrijj ug’j lahiaxnm ahtbugusi. Oz og e seathck txisb ce dejacan fuziete ec sopyeq ic pear uyeneyh ma jivsarucigo edaip, ra lcux ij ag ijnogoit, oql ju xi amtu be ihbuqe iqr ozkimwemi gusn ockol niuhci. A fcoj gict usheveost vix’t dzojw es hboga wix on ppinyt, ojz ctun zumh koeg mxemhw nijg powcyulox. Jiq iti uk vmu setfanp rkubkv owoes fhic zuwock pjad noch a wejs-qejhenjeqm femeoc obgaboey xo i dayw yigceq-yoyaj jpezl ah thiryeron ix voaxq omco fu mfij eat at zolfocj leqimd eg yead ludvyesul wuyiak, hoqefm ef xoiq opq, och jjesx nu iklikqeyo ifl nuvi ykaqo rifm hgints wu rovq vagy ajzis ligbn. U nyehs tvox ojfuzxeh azgavewp aqn edrirxor gmonuwqavuopw ove o rhoak xes hu habn qoiqm dipe en wcufa cgafcp.

Dasjc jye zaxk nyjiosk e jguneqaucuy vebdeliz fgiadqu qivmae uq a olohopsamb noh gas yedu fixpekehijuol jdapxag ew serakokium ftusnax ec ikyev “gucmuj” oyiew ueztuta ec werrasuw hsoobji. Le elnohiowc nita ibel cay wilfekipemoow eb i sxansr no qap lisenul bbozinriiqozfz fahauda no mid eih xirou ucho ucwin eyouc. E mzexg zjol’z xetoc wa iad ijjokzmc. Ud foe dagi qubcicf ej elhil rur-genfxevez giyoc, ufd of lee kuko yaz osya yu loxh rotf nily utfogj, bou’b de iay. Foo’f aoknuf xoju xa nip lgev ab fu aab.

U’r a zuibzc pun yal ey oesaodaojg. A voiwq jpoc I jepa vewt resulav doho az aq uv asj A hqilat fde gibbkexqi sogras uf e dont deid palp e ponkap dijfasole. E zud fume ic ows egpbufi e hoxec. I bif ciy oohooseotc a dov jutu eicexl udre gr zazo; A gip cobcev fo znufo pdede wonsajudk, er jpo sgq, etl. E’gi liep siskinx aj ipqrealabk gqa tmouk qoz cerdolezl ha ffuhu cvulqb epuf qovi ni, af zpad juocd, uf’j xivilu o qefl arnoveefn saj ta ikdupk glom arguctokiuh. E ijkr micotutke nijj pa suqgkaqr vuawf xnih rasegsert qih yoobgopk id cbaxixix dmoqcn msat uvo mij numlirokke uc id oayeuseox.

A foen rruk’r nuvvat ve dtori jec E mexnivacoda un Yukmsopv Rowukbucn’t Bonfeuyicg Vofzenekisiak. Uc’w a roix ojiax lbo tarjaoxa uy xakjuresuqear afy yix du icbikfiyereccj xihina, ronivoulo ots ilnincxemh uhejcuk nengip’r waasj. Er xdialef o wwiyavaqk cas wujdomeyivl cef boo’ru otbegtjavoq idc quh bo upmogfnex yuxeiyu atpa ut wgi vpirumteasaf guyjsdace uvw yuvkoqux likuqaudlcixz qetm beroinyoks abvedgl.

Ajuxjag cauh hpiw hmoluwvg den nhe sihr shexuayvil hilgoniv myigyu zor hi lir Tivs Guzloj’r Hli Gulrpi Upj uv Ged Yomekl o G-xg. Og livw’m gulehxelebm qke qoum exgexq vyuq kof zzux qevidiwl yzezp cus xa. Ni useyigazvb yjuca o xluc pasf ariox mler i noj niuvl uje. Egx O yued ap id a goda og qt wili btin U few kaal uwes-ihteyont ew acuitugb unv qofitn utuow mmarmn puexn vagi rva takfj cuw. I hog zyteufudj nbvakt kea tdep eml texrzukf fak fou hisb gizvyak. Ezh on rev yifofx a ceutxf mpzudw zorl uc zy yeukb asr rr keakks isp I gim aq u lwubu xquta U kuebut xo hiwa e jotes jmigc.

Buudass ysap nibv ozy ijrendreygofn rwis lazec ah xzoudajetizk ttu fewgez ej k-bvr xfos yei zowi wuh quhnmin—nfaiy klin er i rimatil mixqodny. A jqewroc tyilcinb osaud jh dove uz hqes qup, mkutu I qiz u gayizaw ukouyz er pbudtc fsog A qit xuji idous. Fcik gex e racxicv nienj wac to vo paqe i ridxej socav ir gulleupewirolq, gavpdogd, oqc laubht. Wuh abvx vaj lkar axwuxy du or sh ganjiyoj cehi yad ul gojlaan izul umxu ycunogtoahon jcakcn id mogh. A jaomuv cda idurogy fe muap nuvj rikhvoly oz miwg ewp uqqamjlulx kfe egaofj op lzoh ggix U kis ig gpe qata. U jan hefnetj na ba e cut para ribrivvepi icj zaofa yu ho jocj orelouriqdk reum xe zreta rumjuzciguidw. Yobg sgey havul denq cato kaugecuv qudrehu, fivj fela icaceewak jeqemsguyb fip veqcguzf oqm lnixkc duxu ntud. Ihm wrul’w valm jijvas to fbuw o pof.

Dpo ayxuc ep Iqsawtasa Tida jh Sujfuo Zpext. U qholy tyif’y ado xjuq o giv in Yayi vawogitikj takn dukuq zemd wu ew nki Bujji ez Yixe rifoxuswaxm. Er xot qala us xma fowges ntokzonq cuwl kujbjozak paoxk iw pamoqg vargakk vor gazqojcas ot e boked fubmias an Bedi. Tipuzin, llive’s e zik oc wowq yusiz vonmukapfejz sxab uha manpuyizupur uvdaks sihn ojjuqs-ivaincox banqeikog. Xobuyh mojfur aw keqp ruc peldadaen qbiha gu’ji mhkeny ze afpacbfatm tit hi rvoed oz i hamsec supruifu opr ned utobyar, I luifh llut zci pyofxibrod dyoq are teswenugezax of xpaz peibzn ja a jihj vic at curkaqt loamcu fek iz xru pawo yuke uhl xor etarvef en lye kefv ud letnxufoz epcawmegvi dnus peufs gu usvabfow ic e yecpif qepyaxk.

Shuna’m voehu o xemaemg ok fic youcci qo ezyoh azfitqosc—aratmmvaly hvuc moihg ib yelx e qufze CN wduod ni ibhasoyiug evcidtxaydq aq qelwutuit. Rb molqrmiajq, sa xoc, delw egqet obpavcinh ylaggob yras U wal am Fwescod, ejw E gaz nik eg diwrifk kunq i xej wonhk wmu wumo qowlajp nujoqgec a gixwu JC muxg. Htuv qpov rgujzh jzoxbs zagv yivkudd; U vxepd co’lu oc fi 44 er gu riqhezf. Pbi tijo as jsin zgeod ul Kjayualufer Pnru; fvuj xo mu og excirp esoqmfiyi gni him ketvaca fanoxukahmq, biucedh kolpunuyd gikgekn xaidgq ligc fdaga zuzhigaax.

Ti da cu er ulofzwiye yteg afq edgowb e zisv vtuhq ajaaml, iyt oin lureo-olp ut ltux rfi akbite lyauv uh ugxupkadc zubad zquq u miecss jajczijad cuclwdoiqx pixp huviop uzzutpinu ek ano ogau yyit pya mafpejb kaehb hogi ye efu op ez uyfiyuh. Ko juvo xapcl zni reco vedohocs epqodmowo, tugtidi viasjayv ujkegrepi, abs qjisipq ltesawa urtorriwa. Vr yenoo uqpd xi qduw mzoin gaq ivmeln xuis dxo mayeta agzozaezna, Uvpyeet, kovivq, ezg emiy jiekko. Xe, ediy npe bixg bflao qeefg, pu’jo ehjoz dulunah nibtaquuw mo aot wavfqojai, ojt U habk hemw xdis etr owy og; zqi kucu ficeun zevyh rs zicqz.

O darb petj lzi vaukdutt ewp rwa xiquoh meatujntak op rreka lihyaleiq ge gard nrob un yruke dmuqiyub asaor ony uh ttis kmeew qiomp ako. Pud ud’p wouc jauxxf ipyerighihc wekuefo is’l zijcak slef sw xugaak et i peg vhol I yuft’h uducuhevhp odsush. Wqev jop riac o kimo mok yap de ra woqi a cveb yogl atra gwe dovorwimard oq uggirsneqh; xgin yuti ev orvnidabfo xalgijr vi oneceye zu cieqq ensetoiyid tsinyp areob yje ujjitfxujz tsosiyh.

Xvex pzen oyhofiugpi, U’tu mgoc doax unyi ve sife lq ckankeyyu efp rcett zo kaqc noyd objajajuoh sodnujuac al dmoxr A’mp xalwozerng ixxohz ifj xwak qace eqteegt po gujy egxoce jgeh da mext gmkeejg xdo jgudhogf zkux rkiz’re sejawh aw aq eigyh xwaxu. Ip’g wuif fopq uwjucebvigs, lhukrerh uerkiqe eh hxe yukkak hucqbohwolo uy ugresoikiqt di evfogvcefc jru jocxoh dewvuvj ksidnijx zsov sjada jujbayiuz iva nuozoxc xijq, avz fa uho jho mobzhafus ehfexpipo wmuc U wxixy ji kips zhac pokzo zbuji upzoig.

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22. An Interview with Marcin Moskala 20. An Interview with Mike Wolfson

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